Thursday, February 28, 2008

AiGs YECs on ERVs

Its peer reviewed too! For realzies! In a big kids journal!!!

Answers Research Journal. ARJ is a professional, peer-reviewed technical journal for the publication of interdisciplinary scientific and other relevant research from the perspective of the recent Creation and the global Flood within a biblical framework.
heh. Wonder if the Young Earth Creationists will publish their journal as often as the Intelligent Design Creationists?
ISCID is pleased to announce the latest issue of PCID, Volume 4.2 November 2005.
heheheh. Anyway, I dont think the ERV stuff is Sokaled-- it reads straight from the list of Creationist Claims about ERVs I already have, but I took a look at it anyway just to make sure I didnt miss a good one.

I didnt.

But it was funny anyway:
Day Six--Termites with Trichonympha (protozoans); cattle rumen with methanogenic bacteria; human intestines with E. coli (bacteria); human reproductive system with ERVs
heeeeeehehehehehehe. Sweet. The funniest part, though? The references:


Atlas, R. M., and R. Bartha. 1998. Microbial ecology: Fundamentals and applications, 4th ed. San Francisco, California: Benjamin Cummings.

Bulloch, W. 1938. The history of bacteriology. New York: Dover Publications.

Francis, J. W. 2003. The organosubstrate of life: A creationist perspective of microbes and viruses. In Proceedings of the Fifth International Conference on Creationism, ed. R. L. Ivey, Jr., pp. 434–444. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania: Creation Science Fellowship.

Gillen, A. L. 2007. The genesis of germs: Disease and the coming plagues in a fallen world. Green Forest, Arkansas: Master Books.

Gillen, A. L. and F. Sherwin. 2005. The immune system: Designed to interact with microbes. Origins (A Journal of the Biblical Creation Society) 40:5–9.

Lim, D. V. 2003. Microbiology, 3rd ed. Dubuque, Iowa: Kendall/Hunt.

Liu, Y. 2007. Endogenous retroviruses: Remnants of germline infection or created in the cell? In All creation groans: The problem of natural evil, Proceedings of the Sixth BSG Conference, ed. R. W. Sanders, Occasional Papers of the BSG 10:19–20.

MacArthur, J. 2001. Battle for the Beginning. Nashville, Tennessee: Thomas Nelson.

Morris, H. M. 2006. The New Defender’s Study Bible (KJV). Grand Rapids, Michigan: Word Publishing.

Purdom, G., and J. W. Francis, eds. 2008. Proceedings of the Microbe Forum, June 2007. Answers Research Journal 1:1–6.

heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehehehehehehehehehehehe!! LUV!! LUUUUUV!!! Study Bible in the reference, but no, you know, 'journals'. Not a one! Not even a real article just to quote-mine!! ROFL!!

Meh-- Ive already covered their claims (dont forget this one!) in my list, but if you see anything I missed, or still have a Q, leave a comment!


Mauricio Monsalve Moreno said...

I've seen things like that many times. There is a lot of people who want to make science but their own science instead of real science. These people quickly forget that science is not made by knowledge leaders but from research. The title of the paper and the conclusions are more important than the authors, and methodology is more important than any claim... Furthermore, what is important is logic and coherence, not reputation. Any experiment, any deduction, should be repeated by anyone with the right tools.

I like being a counter-example for this sort of things like creationism. I am a taoist. TAOIST. I don't believe in Christ, the "flood", etc. That useless "biblical science" is nothing for people like me. I can't do experiments. I can't reproduce knowledge from scratch. I can't even verify Bible as accurate facts. I can't even test it with logics. And, if it is a set of truths, as it has finite sentences, how much knowledge can I create solely with these facts?

This is the opposite of science. Science is led by DOUBT. Reasoning is led by doubt... I mean, logics were built on top of doubt. (Aristotle made a methodology from Plato's dialectics based on counterexamples, and formal logics were created.) How can a reasoning be accurate without doubting? That is the foundation for experiments and reviews. Clearly not everything is valid so you have to have a way to dismiss some claims. But the most important thing is that COMMON SENSE IS USELESS. People believe in lots of weird things, like black cats are bad luck.

alloy said...

Hi Abby

There doesn't appear to be a nice summarized essay on CERV1/2 (HERV1/2) elements in the human, chimp and macau genomes, and the apparent dating inconsistancies of some of these families of ERV's.

Creationists love to nitpick apparent inconsistancies, ignoring the overwhelming body of evidence in favour of common descent.

I understand the concept of ERV's as evidence of common descent beautifully, but the technical issues not so much, the original material is frankly a little beyond my junior high school biology, and I'm loath to simply quotemine what I don't understand.

I quote from the queries I received:

(1)"Still no evidence or testable explanation why phylogenetic analysis of the LTRs from full-length elements revealed that subfamily 2 of CERV 1 dates to *7.8my* suggesting that subfamily 2 was *present in the lineage prior* to the time chimpanzees and humans diverged from a common ancestor? "

(2)"Still no evidence or testable explanation why two of the more abundant subfamilies of CERV 2 dated to 21.9my and 14.1my?"

(3)Still no molecular or geographical explanation for the spread of CERV 1 and 2 families in humans, chimpanzees, bonobos, gorillas, orangutans, old world monkeys, new world monkeys and prosimians?

(4)"Still no reasonable, testable evidence as to why no Rhesus monkey (old world monkey-OWM) ERV-K orthologue is closely related to those in either the chimpanzee or human genomes. Seeing that HERV-Ks integrated into primate genome after the separation of Old and New World monkeys and before the separation of hominids and OWM (+-30-45mya) how can this be?"

(5)"What is the explanation for the independent envelope genes from unrelated ERV families that regulate trophoblast differentiation and syncytia formation during synepitheliochorial placentation? Accidental co-option from different ERV families for such a crucial process?"

Some of these may be total BS, some of them are Red Herrings, but frankly I'm not qualified to tell.

Hope you don't think I'm trolling, I really would like to deliver an authoritative answer to these issues.

Jeremy said...

Seen ARJ's instructions to authors? It's an entertaining/sad read - how many science journals have to remind potential authors that Neanderthal is spelled with an h? (page 7, sect. VII,C,8,d) Also, it's explicitly stated that you can submit under a pen name or anonymously (page 3, sect. II,B,4), in case you have a tenure committee you'd rather didn't know that you're publishing in a young-Earth creationist journal.

Tor Hershman said...

I read your 'Ben Stein' blog post.

Well, well, well, (Now that’s a “Deep” subject) it appears that Ben Stein has a lill’ movie.

I have a wee film/research too but unlike Mr. Stein mine illuminates AND entertains in about five minutes and, A-N-D, it’s FREE!

Mr. Stein (BTW: moi’s film/research tells how the Jewish people REALLY came about) charges you for propaganda and I give the human race knowledge for free, ain’t I a moron? Perhaps.

And here is moi’s, officially ignored, film/research
into the origin of Christendom.

Since the film is
the awful facts it must be disregarded by those that tout
the beautiful untruths.

The Religious Authorities, and those that GAIN from there being religions [e.g., People in the “Business” of Atheism], always say NOT to view that which they DO want you to see and avert their eyes, and remain quite silent, about that which they hope you will not chance upon.

Part I

Part II

If there were a place, and there is, where intelligence that rises little higher than our human brain stems’ capacity WERE allowed Mr. Stein WOULD be found there, hence. . .check your local theater listings for Mr. Stein and murmuring mermaids and yammering yaks - talkin’ terrorists - pontificating puppies - babbling babes – enunciating elephants – answering ants – zinging zombies - replying Rambos a al lambos – and many more such “Levels,” though a basically base intellectual strata they t’were, ‘tis and t’will be.

However, Ben Stein is only doing exactly what moi tells people TO DO and that is,
suck-up to the prevailing mythology in the CULTure you happen to be surrounded by.
Hence, Ben Stein is flying first class and considering buying a private plane and moi ‘tis takin’ the bus and considering purchasing some meat, for WifeyWu, if’in moi can budget it in.

Stay on groovin’
(Ain’t ya glad moi didn’t alliterate from A to Z?)

Rev. BigDumbChimp said...

HOLY shit. What the FUCK was that?

Gary said...

BDC - "That" I believe is a testament to the Wonders Of Modern Chemicals!

Holy Shit!

BOT - Good find and good post Abbie. You just don't see many papers citing work from 1938 for some reason.


Evolved said...

Enough said.

monado said...

What's the BSG? Bible studies group?

AIGBusted said...

This article contains some stuff that needs to be debunked: