Tuesday, November 27, 2007

If you have set yourself on fire, do not run.

*sigh* Fundamentalist community, let me pass on some advice to you I learned from the atheistic community:

If you have set yourself on fire, do not run.

Okay? Okay?? Please?

Look, D, you had two months to say to Harvard in private emails, "Im sorry, I shouldnt have been using that animation in my paid presentations. I wont use it again. I really do like 'Inner Life', though, and would love to use it in classroom presentations, from the BioVisions site, if that is acceptable."

I sat here, for two months, waiting for that to happen, anything to happen, and it didnt. Two months, on your own terms, you could have written a similar post to yesterdays. I would have given you the benefit of the doubt-- maybe you didnt know the credits werent visible to the audience, and I wouldnt have said a word beyond this, as its Harvards problem, not mine. This would have been a funny joke to those of us involved in dealing with you people, but it would have been a PR non-issue for you.


But after you set yourself on fire, you didnt douse it out with a bucket of ice cold reality and accountability. You ran. And youre still running.


Why not just state "I screwed up. Sorry everyone." and move on? Why the excuses? Why the denial? Why the passive language? Why the vague words and cryptic capitalizations? Why the writes and rewrites of your 'press release'? We know it wasnt written of your own volition, or it would have been done *before* Harvard had to take action. And, your behavior before this, regarding this issue, is not indicative of someone who made an innocent mistake. Its weird.

So what with this frantic running? Is the inability to say "I was wrong" a pathological feature of Creationists? Or are you hiding something? Or is it both? Or is it more?

And now we get Casey weighing in on the issue, according to cre8id at AboveTopSecret.com-- PBS/NOVA online - Intelligent Design on trial:

...to my knowledge, Discovery Institute has neither authorized nor received nor is making use of any presentation that used that animation. We have had nothing to do with creating or selling a DVD of that animation, nor do we have anything to do with placing that presentation on Google Video.
I dont know what he is talking about with that last part, but the first part sounds similar to DIs claims post-Dover ("WE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH DOVER!"). Maybe Luskin is telling the truth. Maybe this was a magic non-science Creation-friendly narration with convenient edits that AiG or ICR would have killed for... but only Dembski could find it... but he cant tell us where... and he didnt share it with anyone... and its subsequently disappeared from the Internet...

But that simply isnt what Ive been told. Maybe this was all a silly Dembski mistake, blown out of proportion due to his decision to remain silent... But what if we find more videos of more DI fellows, presenting this animation?

*shrug* If youve set yourself on fire, do not run, DI. If youve done it, better admit it to Harvard now, apologize, and move on.


Anonymous said...

Good luck getting a sincere apology from that guy.

Let's see some of the things he's done in the past:
1) Plagiarism of the Harvard video and his notpology for that

2) Dembski's fake Baylor letter. His notpology for it:

3) Dembski's farting video of Judge Jones plus of course, his explanation (notpology?) for his behaviour

Anonymous said...

Yes, I've included the current incident in this, since he's already been half-assed about his apology.

That's the best you'll get.

Forthekids said...


From the link:

“What I find difficult to take seriously are the recent histrionics by members of the Darwinist internet posse. If would take them more seriously if they applied their concerns a tad more consistently. For example, some of the very Darwinists who are now browbeating Dr. Dembski also posted on their blogs video from his lecture, presumably without his permission.”

I swear, you people bring me endless hours of entertainment....

Blake Stacey said...

Wow. By FTK-logic, Woodward and Bernstein would have had to pay Nixon royalties for the Watergate tapes.

Seriously: what part of "nonprofit educational purposes" and "effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work" is hard to understand? Beyond that, why is the difference between forthrightness and underhanded deception so difficult to grasp?

Creationism, noun: the morally bankrupt pursuit of the factually wrong.

waldteufel said...

I wondered how long it would take that silly twit forthekids to put down her Wholly Babble and come staggering in with some nonsense.

If you are still conscious, ftk, please give us some specific examples of ERV or anyone here taking one of Billy's videos, writing over the sound with someone else's words, and then presenting it as support for their arguments.
Oh, and without attribution.

Just one or two cases would be helpful.

Scott Noe said...


Just one or two cases would be helpful.

You're being too polite. Let's start with just one and go from there. :-)

AIGBusted said...

This whole thing should make people realize just how credible these IDers are to begin with. BTW, check out my blog, I'm doing a series now called "Evolution for Creationists". It explains the Evidence for Evolution in a way that is easy to understand, and I believe, undeniable.



blipey said...


I'll have you know that every time, every single time that I quote, talk about, or reference Dembski in any way, I always show the following:

This crap was said--NO JOKE--really said and owned, in its entirety by Dr. William Dembski. No, I'm serious he really said that. Copyright 2000, Dr. William Dembski.

alloy said...


it's fair usage to post video of a crime in commission.

Brian said...

I'm sorry, ftk, and by extension John West, that is maybe the most mind-fuckingly hilarious justification I've ever heard. First off, fair use allows limited reproduction of a copyrighted work for scholarly critique. Check. Second of all, copyright only applies to *original* works. Let that sink in for a moment.

Ok, are we coming to some realizations here? Dembski apparently now holds copyright over video of him violating somebody else's copyright. Sorry, no. Just no. The number of blown fuses in the brain it must take to make a statement like that...

By the way, ERV, Vpu may have it all over Vif in terms of evolutionary speed, but let's give it 5 more years of research and I'll bet SIV vs HIV Vif's got a really interesting, "multiple protein-binding site" story to tell. After all, we just found the A3s a few years ago.

Anonymous said...

Im going to swear to Dembskis god right now, that we were staring at a blank black screen when that animation stopped,

It wasn't a blank black screen. I thought this thing where people are always invisible to everybody only happens in nightmares and stuff. Oh well...

oleg said...


Dembski didn't claim any rights to the video. Why would anyone want to ask his permission? Care to explain? Feel free to contact John West for further ideas.

alloy said...

Here's the ethical question, was it ethical to use a version of the video that had obviously been modified.

The Video he used clearly wasn't the intended final product of Harvard. Irrespective of whether he modified it, or simply "found" it, the emperor still needs new clothes.

Doppelganger said...


Go crawl back into bed with your homoerotic fantasy boy-toy, slimy Sally Cordova.

On second thought - keep doing what you are doing. You make yourself - and your cause - look more and more foolish with each utterance. Your gullibility for creationist lies and propaganda is comical in its sadness.

Kristjan Wager said...

"Dembski didn't claim any rights to the video. "

Oleg, let's not make the mistakes that the DI is making. Copyright is not something you have to claim - you have it per default.

It doesn't apply here, since the videos of the presentation were used with permission.

rthearle said...

"Is the inability to say "I was wrong" a pathological feature of Creationists?"



James F. McGrath said...

I just noticed something that Uncommon Descent adds to its rss feed, which is profoundly ironic. Take a look.

Emanuel Goldstein said...

Dembski plagarized!

Therefore, there is no God!

Isn't that about the point of all this?

Blake Stacey said...

James F. McGrath:

Ha! Irony, indeed.



Hermagoras said...

Question: has anybody located the turnip truck off which Dembski's "found" version allegedly fell?

ERV said...

FTK-- Harvard and XVIVO approved of my post containing their animations, on YouTube. Ill take them down the second they ask, if they do. It wasnt hard. Just shot them an email. Too hard for Dembski, evidently.

Herm-- No. And he is unwilling to tell anyone where he 'found' it. But Im sure its just a coincidence no one has seen this manipulated animation, except in presentations by DI fellows.

Tatarize said...

You have to remember, they aren't real scientists(duh), they're Cargo Cultists. They try to do the same stuff scientists do, publish papers, offer arguments, write books, have opinions, refer to other scientific work. They just have that trouble with the part of science involved in doing science.

It isn't that they are wrong (which they are), it's that they think science is a way of further your theory/opinion, when it's about discovering the truth. Science isn't how you dress a theory to gain it respect, science is how you understand the world.

There's that step about being utterly honest about everything and letting the theory and data speak which catches them off guard. I doubt they see the difference between making a theory to fit the data in a realistic and real way and making data to fit the theory. Roughly like finding a square peg for a square hole or cutting up a round peg a bit and shoving it in. Even if it looks like it fit, it's useless because you did it wrong.

oleg said...


I suspect the turnip truck had Washington state license plates.


If you want voice samples from Casey Luskin and other DI luminaries, you'll find plenty of them at ID the Future.

Rev. BigDumbChimp said...

FtK. Seriously. I go away for two months and I think you've actually gotten denser. I didn't think it was possible ... but I've been proven wrong.

Someone taking a video, using without permission, cutting and chopping up the video to make it look like they created it, completely changing the jist of what was being said in the video and then taking credit for it is exactly nothing like showing a video of an unedited speech. Nothing.

You remain to be one of the best examples of the rampant stupidity and disconnect with reality of your side.

Jon Voisey said...

Rev. BigDumbChimp: I've noticed the same thing about FtK. Ever since she took over for one of the larger Creationist blogs while they were on vacation, she's become even more pathetic. At least in the past, she could stammer through some confused reciting of the technobabble of Behe and Dembski, but now she's become a flat out apologist, spewing out the arguments that don't even pretend to follow logic.

trrll said...

Not surprisingly, DI seems to be trying to shift the issue away from plagiarism, a clear violation of academic ethics, to copyright, where some sort of case might be made that it was "Fair Use."

The key point is not that he used Harvard's video, but that he failed to credit it to Harvard, creating the deceptive impression that it was produced by ID "scientists."

Rev. BigDumbChimp said...

gist.... sheesh I also see my 2 months away did nothing for my typo addiction.

Now Jon, what website did she take over? I've been gone and I'd love to see. If it's anything like her blog it should be entertaining watching her delete comments and fumble like a drunk clown.

blipey said...

That would be Young Cosmos, as Slimy Sal Cordova is in school or something.

Ftk's New Playground

Anonymous said...

Well, I've made the mistake of reading some of the stuff at her website.

Holy son of a crap! Are her and S. Cordova even sane??

Get a load of their Darwinist castration article. Ugh.

Unknown said...

What? Blank screen?

You need to get your eyes check. I certainly saw a invisible pink unicorn waving to us while the credits rolled by.

Sheesh. U guys know no bounds in trying to discredit this honest man's work. You know all he gets in return for his labor are book royalties from xians eating this crap up.

C Mc said...

Check it out though - we've got our own creationist culture minister in Northern Ireland!