Saturday, September 01, 2007

In which ERV eats SALs soul

Oh dear. If you thought I was mean to Sal before, dont read this. On second thought, read this, and then tell me whether you still think I was too mean to Sal before.

It recently came to my attention (through awesome posters) that Sally is making the worst accusation that you can make against a scientist-- that I deliberately misled everyone about the evolution of HIV.

I have no idea what the full claim is, but this is what a reader got from it:

However, in the quoted post Sal went even further. He stated in no uncertain terms that ERV knowingly misled PT readers. This is a pretty strong accusation.
Sal, ask everyone you know to pray for your soul, because the gloves are off now. I am going to eat you alive.

Heres the deal, SAL, I publish under my real name. 'SA Smith'? Thats my name. Thats what all of my publications will be listed under, even if I get married. Though the HIV research world is HUGE, there will be no question as to which 'SA Smith' is ERV because no one else on the planet does what I do.

My name is on the line with every word I type about HIV.

In addition to that, big wigs in the HIV world read my blog. I am sometimes useful for Dealing with Deniers. Specifically, someone I want to hire me in 4, 5 (shoot me now if its 6) years reads this blog.

My name is on the line with every word I type about HIV.

In addition to that, my university knows about my blog. I knew I would be writing about topics with mentally insane proponents (Creationists/Deniers/etc) and since I blog under my real name, I wanted them to be aware of my blog and aware of my posts just in case a nutjob e-mailed my higher-ups about me.

My name is on the line with every word I type about HIV.

In addition to that, I actually want my peers and my superiors to respect me. If I lie to them, I fully expect them to turn their backs on me. I would rather die than lose their trust.

My name is on the line with every word I type about HIV.

You. You Sal Cordova. You cottage cheese dripping pussy. You lack the courage of your convictions. You, who wont publish under your real name. You, who only accidentally let your Uni know about your 'activities'. You, who can lie until everyone within a 50 mile radius of you is covered in milky slime without losing the 'respect' of your peers and superiors in Creationist World. You, who has a lifetime-job-guarantee from any well funded Creationist or Dominionist organization for the rest of your life.

And as for people knowingly misleading people, you need to look no further than your loser friend who sold his soul for a shot at fame, Michael F. Behe. Unlike him, I actually consulted relevant experts before I published my essay. Of course the Usual Suspects, but HIV researchers, including last authors on Vpu papers (Who got back to me within 24 hours! Scientists are nice people!). The only logical conclusion from F. Behes exquisite book and the stunning silence my essay has received from the Creationist Community is that every damn one of you creeps is knowingly misleading people for your own sick pleasure.

Run back to your sewer, you disgusting lump of a human.

26 comments:

Torbjörn Larsson said...

You cottage cheese dripping pussy.

[*Swoon*] I know it isn't your intention, but you sure know how to woo guys. [/*Swoon*]

Btw Slimy Creationist Salvador Cordova, if you are reading this, is evolution an accepted phenomena and verified theory in the scientific community?

A simple YES or NO will suffice.

quantok said...

There are two references to HIV-2 in ERV's Panda's Thumb post:

"This means that Vpu is in HIV-1 but not HIV-2."

"Michael Behe, as a courtesy to you, this essay isn't even going to touch Vpx, a gene specific to the HIV-2 and SIV sm lineage. Vpx is one of those pesky gene duplications you say don't exist in HIV (Vpr x2)."

It is scordova's position that those two sentences are an underhand attempt to bamboozle the PT readers into thinking that a new gene appeared in HIV-1 in humans (as opposed to SIV).

Cretinist.

However, the 'Quick Translation for Laymen' might be ambiguous. ERV stated:

"The problem is, HIV-1 and HIV-2 both have new genes. HIV-1 has a gene called Vpu, and HIV-2 has one called Vpx. Vpx is the result of a gene duplication-- a second Vpr."

I suppose you could argue that taken in isolation the first line could give the impression that Vpu appeared in HIV-1 after entering humans (but only if you hadn't read the other posts).

Doesn't help Sal much though — the Panda's Thumb post was clear and precise, unless you are a professional Liar for Jesus.

ERV said...

Torbjörn-- Im sorry :P Ill put up a new blog icon tomorrow to make it up to you!

quantok-- Im very devious. I even went around to all the blogs talking about me and corrected anyone who misunderstood my post, like this theistic evolutionist.

August 8, 11.22 PM

He, and Ian, were the inspiration for the Illustrated Guide for anyone that got spun around with my initial post (not Casey, really, sorry C-dog).

Next thing you know, Sal will declare the 'debate' unfair because I can go back in time and plant evidence against him.

Hermagoras said...

ERV,

Sal's post is found here, in case you were wondering what, exactly, he said.

H

Ian said...

So Sal isn't his real name? I thought he was our friend...writing all those posts at UD just for us. And as his friend we could even call him Sal, or Sally. And now you tell me that isn't his real name? What next - is DaveScot's name not DaveScot? Is Michael Behe's middle initial not F.? Is intelligent design not The Truth?

BTW - remind me never to piss you off. Not that he doesn't deserve it. But I suppose it's par for the course...it's their job as IDi(s/o)t to mislead people. Since they do it for a living, it's probably trivial for them to accuse other people of being like them. But, as they'd know if any of them were actually working scientists, there is no greater insult. As I learned from the Pivar fiasco:

There are only a few categories of libel per se — (a) a false statement as to the defendant’s professional abilities; (b) a false statement as the defendant’s affiliation with a party (e.g., KKK); (c) imputations of a loathsome disease; or (d) imputations of criminality. (from Scott Pilutik)

Given that he is attacking your professional integrity, I'd say he's on slippery ground (though, of course, IANAL and I don't have a clue what I am talking about).

Wanderin' Weeta said...

You rock!

Anonymous said...

ERV -- your responses to Sal just get classier and classier. That line about the cottage cheese -- that really made your argument stronger and more persuasive.

Albatrossity said...

ERV

Well, that was a tad harsh, but given the circumstances and the slimeball that you were dealing with, certainly justified.

I don't know how to make creationists understand how deadly an insult it is to accuse a scientist of lying about science. I don't know if it is because lying about religion is so commonplace that they don't recognize the magnitude of this insult, or if they really don't understand how science works, or both. But accusations of lying about the science are a huge part of the creationist repertoire. And when you respond with anger or disgust, as in this case, they wonder why you have to be so mean.

They just don't get it (on so many levels).

Oldfart said...

"cottage cheese dripping pussy"
The image boggles the mind.............
lol.....

Tyler DiPietro said...

"ERV -- your responses to Sal just get classier and classier. That line about the cottage cheese -- that really made your argument stronger and more persuasive."

Newsflash, dipshit: when insulting someone, the intention is to scathe your opponent, not "make your argument stronger". If you find the content here objectionable you are always free to go suck your thumb somewhere in the corner where we can't see you.

Kristjan Wager said...

Nice post Abbie.

ERV -- your responses to Sal just get classier and classier. That line about the cottage cheese -- that really made your argument stronger and more persuasive.

Anon., our hostress has repeatedly explained the science behind the subject again and again to Sal, yet he keeps ignoring what she is saying, or even misrepresent her statements. That's par the course with what we expect from him, but when he attacks her and claims that she is lying, then all gloves are off.

Lying about science is the fastest way to end your career within science, which explains why none of the neo-Creationists from the Discovery Institute have any science careers.

Truthfulness is the one quality that every scientist must have. Claiming that someone is lying about their science, is going to get the same reaction as going over to combat veteran serving in the military and claiming he is a coward.

Torbjörn Larsson said...

Torbjörn-- Im sorry :P Ill put up a new blog icon tomorrow to make it up to you!

Um, if it wasn't clear, I like strong personalities and graphic language. [As a swede I'm ill equipped in this area. Lutherans swear on their gods and most other curses were forgotten during our nation's religious period. As an atheist religious curses don't mean anything to me, so I have to make up real ones as I go.]

You had me at "cottage cheese dripping".

(That said, I'm eagerly awaiting the newest example of Icons of ERV!)

Kristjan Wager said...

Seems like Sal won't be debating any more. What a pity.

In reality, probably not a bad idea for him, even if I somewhat doubt that his handle is his real name (of course, I've never tried looking his handle up, so it could be his real name for all I know). American employers seem to be using google when judging the fitness of potential employees. This is btw not an habbit that has reached Denmark yet - how about Sweden Torbjörn?

Torbjörn Larsson said...

Kristjan, if they do, I'm fried fish. :-P

No, I haven't seen of heard of it yet.

The Factician said...

There used to be a technician in my lab who would routinely lie to our boss about him being sick when he was going fishing. I suggested to him that was the worst possible sin he could commit in the lab, and he really should just take a personal day. (He has since left science to go into medicine).

If it ever gets to the point where people in the lab don't believe you, your career is over. I guess the folks over at UD don't understand how important honesty is. It's okay to be wrong, but you have to be honestly wrong. If you're dishonest, it's game over, man. I think they work from the "any tactic necessary to win" playbook and assume that we do, too...

The Factician said...

Oh, and ERV? Remind me never to piss you off...

;)

Albatrossity said...

If it ever gets to the point where people in the lab don't believe you, your career is over. I guess the folks over at UD don't understand how important honesty is.

Absolutely. I fired a technician when it became apparent that she wasn't telling me the truth about what she did. She could stare at a gas chromatogram tracing that clearly showed no evidence of the internal standard that was supposed to be added to every sample, and bald-facedly tell me she certainly did add the internal standard. That was strike one. Strike two was telling me that she set up some cultures but that they got contaminated, so she couldn't finish an important experiment. But all of the culture medium, specially made for that experiment, was still in the fridge.

She never got to strike three...

In a science lab, honesty is critical and trust is earned. Sal will never be a scientist in any meaningful sense of the word.

ERV said...

From Hermagoras on another thread here:
I am very glad that scordova has done the right thing:

"My third loose end which I would like to tie up is that I would like to apologize to Ms. Smith if I have said anything that may be construed as an accusation of dishonesty on her part. Some concern has been expressed that any suggestion of dishonesty could be damaging to her career and I do not wish to damage Ms. Smith’s career as I’m in a similar boat as her. I vigorously disagree with her on various matters, but this should not imply that I am accusing her of lying or dishonesty. Perhaps I made some ill-tempered remarks, but it was not my intent to accuse her of lying or dishonesty. I simply disagree and at times was very irritated."

Good for him. Seriously. I'm not going to take anything away from that.


The very definition of crocodile tears. How many people came out to say the same things have happened to them at UD? They didnt get an apology.

I got one because of oleg, one of SALs future professors.

I want to assure SAL that his internet behavior has no impact on my career. My behavior has an effect on my career, which is why I put a lot of effort into the Behe critique. Its why I actually researched the topic I was writing about, unlike SAL and unlike Behe.

You dont 'vigorously' disagree with me, SAL. You havent demonstrated an ability to read what I write. You havent demonstrated the ability to read what others write. You havent demonstrated the ability to read the papers you cite.

You didnt 'make ill tempered remarks'-- you acted the same damn way you always act. The difference is this time you abused someone who bites back, and you didnt know important people were watching your idiotic behavior. You got yourself into a goddamn mess.

Thanks for the 'apology', SAL.

olegt said...

Hi ERV,

I've said it on another thread but it bears repeating lest Sal declare himself a victim of academic persecution.

I will not be interacting with Sal in any official capacity. My reading of his post is that Sal will be working towards a master's degree taking evening classes in the Engineering Programs for Professionals in Laurel, MD. I am on a different campus (Baltimore) and also in a different school (Arts and Sciences).

Since that insulates us from each other pretty well, I'd like to think that Sal did not cave in to authority but rather found the courage to re-examine his behavior in light of comments from hemagoras, me and others here.

ERV said...

Oleg-- I will not be interacting with Sal in any official capacity.
But SAL didnt know that. He did not learn anything from this. He has simply passed the torch to Casey Luskin, and is allowing him to act like an idiot.

The goal posts have moved from Sal saying "ERV IS A LIAR!" to Casey saying "ERV IS AN ATHEIST!"

Casey, baby, its particularly telling that you think its an 'insult' to point out that someone does not approve of Falwells culture of hate or missionaries telling people condom use doesnt prevent HIV infection.

Keep going, boys, youre digging Behes hole deeper and deeper and deeper... keep going :)

Hermagoras said...

ERV,

I think Sal did know that -- hell, I knew that from Oleg's posts. I don't want to take credit for anything, but I did call him to account relentlessly on this issue in emails. I may have driven him to do something.

So I don't think he felt any pressure from Oleg. I do think he started to think, you know, maybe I don't want to build this kind of a reputation, especially when the evidence is permanent and globally accessible. I think a little time may help him to grow up.

H

Bill said...

So, when Sal didn't "need" something he could be his pathetic, abusive self, but, now that he needs a thin veneer of respectibility he becomes all apologetic.

News flash to Sal: You are what you are, Bud, just like Popeye.

Sal will always be a jerk and "tying up loose ends" won't change that.

His colleagues in grad school are going to have some fun with him. Cue Deliverance music!

Torbjörn Larsson said...

I think a little time may help him to grow up.

To give, or not to give, benefit of doubt, that is the question;
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing, end them.

Fortunately, the apology isn't mine to accept.

Zachriel said...

Bill: "News flash to Sal: You are what you are, Bud, just like Popeye."

One of the great philosophical musings, I yam what I yam and tha's all what I yam.

I think ERV also has studied the wisdom of Popeye, That's all I can stands, cuz I can't stands n'more!

JanieBelle said...

Torbjörn Larsson quoting ERV said,

"You cottage cheese dripping pussy.

[*Swoon*] I know it isn't your intention, but you sure know how to woo guys. [/*Swoon*]"

It ain't just the boys who are swooning.

Just so y'know.

Jeff said...

Cyrano de Bergerac would cut out his tongue and hold his manhood cheap after reading this.

Thank you for giving this man the metaphorical sodomy he demanded.